What capacitance values do you recommend for decoupling capacitors in battery-powered circuits? On small trees, spray the tree with a direct stream of water to dislodge pest colonies. Reproductive Structures Sycamore leaves have a wooly texture and emerge in a cream-like color in the spring. My green ash trees have been dropping leaves this spring. Leaves affected by the bacteria appear scorched, become crisp, and curl up as they turn reddish-brown. Sycamore trees can tolerate a range of soil types and soil pH levels. Besides killing weeds, herbicides such as 2,4-D and dicamba disrupt normal growth in other plants. There may be some type of rot or other problem in a specific area that causes it, and if its just in that one branch, it would be better to have that particular branch entirely removed. Young or newly planted trees dry out much faster than established plants due to their developing root system. Why are these plumeria leaves yellowing, browning, then dropping? So the leaf tissue farthest from the veins turns brown. As in much the same climate as yours, California sycamores in SoCal - often planted as street trees (!?!) When they're not given enough room to grow, their roots can push up sidewalks and driveways and even damage buildings. This can be accomplished by mowing them down, breaking them apart by hand, or putting them through a shredder. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. Most trees are quite resilient, so with the right care and time, they will likely rebound the following year. Was the leaf browning slow or sudden? The. However, their large size can make sycamore trees a problem, as their widespread, shallow roots can damage pavement, underground pipes, and more. American sycamore is a large deciduous tree that may grow 75 to 100 feet tall, is equally as wide, and has a trunk diameter of 10 feet or more. To add iron to the soil, dig small holes, about 1 to 2 inches in diameter and 12 to 18 inches deep, around the trunk of the tree. It's more common for the elms to drop early than the live oaks. Get a planting container ready by filling it with potting soil. After a long hot summer, seeing tree leaves start changing their colors can be an exciting signal that cooler fall weather is on the way. However, Mexican sycamore grows well as far north as USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 8b in Texas and Florida. The American sycamore tree is one of many plants susceptible to aphid infestations. The best way to do this is with a plastic "tent." Don't worry if your tree is experiencing transplant shock, as most often it will be overcome with time. Leaves shriveling and dropping by the basketful can certainly be disturbing, but in this case, its nothing to get too concerned about. The large size of the leaves (anywhere from 4-12 inches wide) makes these trees great shade trees. Gardeners in Southern California frequently worry that using broken leaves, wood, and eucalyptus twigs as mulch is improper. The leaves turning yellow before they fall is an indication that they are going through a normal senescence process. University of California IPM: Sycamore, London Plane Tree -- Platanus spp. Spider mites tend to be most active in hot weather, thriving in dusty, arid conditions. If the lawn beneath your sycamore tree looks like this this spring, you might be understandably concerned about the sycamore tree towering above it. Thick leaves, such as sycamore, walnut, horse chestnut, and sweet chestnut, must be shredded before being added to the leafmould pile since they decompose more slowly. If considering planting a sycamore, choose instead its cousin with similar appearance, the London plane tree, which is highly resistant to anthracnose. Why does my English walnut lose its leaves early? Garden-made potting soil might start with the best leafmould. Are there conventions to indicate a new item in a list? By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. This is likely a dumb question, but I've typed in worse, this is a Californis sycamore right? Just to confirm the accuracy of this answer: I got the tree surgeons to inspect the tree last week and there was conspicuous rot on two of the branches. This can be due to several factors, including insects, diseases, and even dog urine. And the sycamore tree balls (fruit pods) are present then too for added visual interest. Start by gathering up seeds from an established tree's fluffy seed balls, which drop in great quantities in the spring. Using a shovel or rake, stir the compost pile every so often. The leaves are mostly brown, some are still partly green with brown edges. . Phytophthora root rot is a fungal disease that causes leaves to turn dull green or yellow, sometimes causing premature leaf drop, stunted tree growth and patches of soggy, wet bark around the tree crown or upper roots. Sycamore leaves are suitable for composting, albeit their size prevents them from decomposing as quickly as smaller tree leaves. Why is the base of the stem of my persimmon tree turning brown? There is also a fungus that affects these trees in damp parts of the country (Cristulariella depraedans) - this causes leaves to fade and die, but any so affected leaves will show . Most sycamores should have a good canopy of leaves by late June or early July. Your Season-by-Season Guide to Watering Your Garden Effectively, 7 Tough-to-Grow Houseplants that Are Worth the Effort, Fall Is the Best Time for Planting a TreeHere's How to Do It, Our Pictorial Guide to Diagnosing Tree Diseases, 25 Gardening Tips Every Gardener Should Know, Why Your Jade Plant Has Wrinkled Leaves, and How to Perk It Up ASAP, 13 of the Fastest-Growing Trees for a Privacy Screen in Your Yard. It only takes a minute to sign up. Links to this article are strongly encouraged, and this article may be republished without further permission if published as written and if credit is given to the author, Horticulture and Home Pest News, and Iowa State University Extension and Outreach. You can mix in organic material like mulch into the clay or compacted soil to make it more inhabitable for a tree, but this may be difficult to do without the help of a rototiller or excavator. Common Name(s): Sycamore Tree, American . Fill a compost pile with the leaves. Heres how to propagate a sycamore cultivar via cuttings: If your sycamore isn't a cultivar, you can grow it from seed, which comes from the pods. Over-fertilizing can burn your tree's roots or foliage, and in some extreme cases, the tree may die. Tree care is a critical investment for the future of your landscape. The mites, however, also produce a fine webbing and stippling on the leaves. What is happening to them? Mist the soil to keep it moist, and place the tray in a spot with bright, but indirect sunlight. An average garden loam with good drainage should be sufficient. Research sycamore anthracnose. Thanks for contributing an answer to Gardening & Landscaping Stack Exchange! I took the decision to have the tree removed and as they were cutting it up they discovered even moree serious rot in the heart of the trunk. They feed on leaves causing chlorotic spotting. Brown leaf margins have other causes, including excess fertilizer when the symptom occurs in houseplants. The sycamore tree is a good tree for shade. Brown areas eventually enlarge to include the whole leaf. Keep the potting soil moist until the cutting roots. Soak the seeds in water for 24 to 48 hours, and then spread them across seed-starting soil in a tray. Mulch generously to retain moisture in the soil. . Would the reflected sun's radiation melt ice in LEO? Turn off irrigation zones around the affected tree. Sycamore tree leaves resemble maple leaves. If your sycamore tree is making your yard look like October in the middle of June, you're not alone. You might notice the yellowing beginning at the edge of the leaves and then moving to the center. It can turn yellow from natural leaf fall or other reasons. Good soil drainage is crucial to preventing root rot. thanks. Brown edges on leaves can have multiple causes, including leaf scorch from hot or windy weather, or disease caused by various fungi including anthracnose and botrytis blight. The flowers of the . It is one of the largest hardwood trees, by diameter, in North America. Besides giving a tree too much water, a reason for yellowing leaves could be a sick tree. The sycamore isn't a heavy feeder. Stick a small stake into the planting container and hang a clear plastic bag over it. Besides messiness, do sycamore trees have any other objectionable qualities? Sycamores often suffer serious bark damage from squirrels - they strip the bark off and if that stripped area is all around a branch, then the branch gets die back. Houzz utilise des cookies et d'autres technologies de suivi similaires pour personnaliser mon exprience utilisateur, me proposer du contenu pertinent et amliorer ses produits et services. Many trees need a significant amount of watering, especially if they're young or newly transplanted. So the leaf tissue farthest from the veins turns brown. Inspect the leaves in late summer for irregular scorch patterns between leaf veins. If you wish to compost any of these three items, the more you can cut them up using a shredder or mower before composting, the faster theyll degrade. Sycamore leaves turn brown ON SALE - UP TO 75% OFF Bathroom Vanities Chandeliers Bar Stools Pendant Lights Rugs Living Room Chairs Dining Room Furniture Wall Lighting Coffee Tables Side & End Tables Home Office Furniture Sofas Bedroom Furniture Lamps Mirrors Branches of a mature Sycamore Tree It's important to take notice of such troubling signs and learn their causes so you can try to address the issue. Insert it into the hole. Too much . You will need to let the fruit dry out completely. In many cases, the causes are specific to the type of tree. Here Are 3 Possible Reasons. The rest of the tree seems healthy, but the effect is unsightly and gives me concerns about the overall health of the tree. What an excellent choice for a street tree! The symptom you see most frequently is crinkling and browning of the leaves. This sycamore tree disease is most likely to strike when the weather is cool and wet. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. Keep the medium moist. Sycamore is a massive tree reaching 75 to 90 feet in height, has a rapid growth rate, and tolerates wet and compacted soil. Emerald cedar, or 'Emerald Green' arborvitae, commonly develops brown leaves in summer. Yes. Making sure to give them enough water will help them come back stronger the following year. To have a decent mixture of brown and green material, choose other deciduous leaves, manure, grass clippings, or kitchen garbage. Sycamore, ash, maple, oak, and other trees are susceptible to anthracnose, a fungal disease. Decomposition will be accelerated as a result. The tree produces broad, dark green leaves that naturally turn yellowish-brown before dropping in the fall. If so it will probably recover as Omar says. Because it grows along streams in the wild, the sycamore tree tolerates wet areasbetter than many trees do. . It's been doing fine until the leaves all turned brown in about a 24-48 hour period and are now falling off the tree. It also tolerates the air pollution often found in urban settings. Confusingly, there's a totally distinct plant called sycamore maple (Acer pseudoplatanus) that gets its name from its resemblance to the American sycamore tree. The appearance of a white crust on a houseplant's potting soil or container is a sign of excess fertilizer salts; four times in one hour, water the plant until the water leaks out its container's drainage hole to leach the excess fertilizer salts from the container and soil. . If that has happened every year for five years or so, and always the same branch, then some serious inspection of the woody parts and the main trunk of the tree is called for. Size of Tree: Sycamore trees range in height from 75-90 feet Sycamore Tree Care You can find out more about our use, change your default settings, and withdraw your consent at any time with effect for the future by visiting Cookies Settings, which can also be found in the footer of the site. Sycamore trees grow best in deep, moist, rich soils. Generally not considered to be a life threatening ailment but it can certainly weaken the tree and make it prone to other issues. Learn tips for creating your most beautiful home and garden ever. . 2150 Beardshear Hall Other preventative measures include cleaning up the fallen leaf and twig debris and disposing of it, rather than composting to eliminate the source of new infection. During windy conditions, chemical weedkillers used on plants in one location can cause brown leaf edges in nearby plants. To help prevent transplant shock, let the tree acclimate to its new home for several days before placing it into the ground. Why was the nose gear of Concorde located so far aft? Like all plant diseases, it requires three things to develop: A susceptible host (sycamore). Why is my sycamore tree dropping its leaves? Sycamore produces discomfort in a variety of ways, in addition to its filth. They are not, however, as potent as, say, walnut leaves and wood, particularly black walnut. A variety of environmental conditions, pests and diseases can interfere with water transport and cause leaves to develop brown edges. But sometimes it may seem like the leaves start turning too early and looking brown instead of sporting typical autumn colors. The condition of a plant's leaves often reflects the health of the entire plant. Chlorosis is the most common caused of yellowing, usually caused by insufficient iron supply. As new leaves unfold, they crinkle and turn brown, wilt rapidly and fall. Older leaves turn brown, and dead areas occur along the leaf veins. Batty for Guano: A Natural Powerhouse of Nitrogen, Phosphorus, and Potassium! Garden strawberries grow as perennials in U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) plant hardiness zones 5 through 8 and as annuals in other zones. American sycamore also is susceptible to anthracnose. March 7thVirtual Program: Birds, Bees, Flowers and Trees, March 8thGateway Green Industry Conference, Collinsville Gateway Center, March 8thVirtual Program: Homegrown National Park, March 10thNature by Design, LeClaire Room at N.O. Cookies collect information about your preferences and your devices and are used to make the site work as you expect it to, to understand how you interact with the site, and to show advertisements that are targeted to your interests. 1. The ends of twigs may be killed back 8 to 10 inches. Ames, IA 50011-2031 Why are non-Western countries siding with China in the UN? It's possible to give too much water to a tree, so be on the lookout for yellowing or drooping leaves that indicate overhydration, as opposed to dry, brown leaves that are a result of lack of water. My crabapple has begun to drop some of its leaves. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. Dark and sunken dead areas form along the veins of older leaves eventually expanding to include the entire leaf. The best time to plant one is late winter or early spring. Here's how you can help your trees recover from leaf scorch. are huge deciduous shade trees that grow in USDA plant tolerance zones 6 through 10. For example, the fungal disease anthracnose causes reddish brown spots at leaf tips in garden strawberry plants (Fragaria x ananassa) and tan or purplish leaf margins in flowering dogwood (Cornus florida) in cool, wet weather. Andrew Hughes is a certified arborist and member of the International Society of Arborists specializing in tree heal care. Are there any benefits in growing sycamore? Before planting, make sure the ground is loamy and well-drained, and that the soil has been loosened in order for the tree to take root with ease. Remove mulch around the tree to encourage the soil to dry faster. It's a common fungal disease called "anthracnose." Symptoms are yellowing leaves that shrivel on the limbs & eventually fall. Symptoms of anthracnose on sycamores include brown blotches on leaves, death of young buds and shoots, and leaf drop. I'd appreciate any ideas. Lets get started. The sycamore tree is a deciduous tree that can grow up to 30 feet tall and wide. I had to prune a couple of the leaves already but it seems to be occurring consistently now. In addition to height, one characteristic that's special about a sycamore tree is its bark. Two-spotted spider mites often become resistant to miticides, but adequate watering for your particular plants can help the plants resist two-spotted spider mite infestations. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. Why would a Leyland cypress needles brown after 1 month transplant? It's important that you make sure the fertilizer you use is compatible with your tree, that you're applying the correct ratios, and that the feedings are spaced out over the suggested amount of time. Sycamore tree leaves turn a copper color in the fall. (such as weve had in St. Louis this spring) coincide with the emergence of the young sycamore leaves. What's going on? Flowering dogwood is hardy in USDA zones 5 through 9a. Natural Leaf Fall. Cut into the bark of a branch with a small knife. 16 years ago, when I moved into a house newly built on the field next door, I had the sycamore pollarded (it was far too big to contemplate otherwise). By the time the leaves are shed from the tree in the fall, they turn various shades of yellow and red. . An established American sycamore tree has some drought tolerance. If the soil is dusty and crumbly, the tree is drought stressed. Trees' roots can absorb herbicides applied to weeds under the trees' canopies. 4 Reasons Why Your Orchid Stem Is Turning Yellow, How to Tell If a Tree Is Dead: 6 Signs to Look For. See images. The plate-like leaves will blanket the soil in the fall. Keep trees well watered during drought (sycamores are naturally a river bottom tree and need lots of water), and fertilize to maintain tree vigor. In extreme cases, injections into the tree might be needed. The sycamore tree is often divided near the ground into several secondary trunks, very free from branches. What should I do? Usually, if you consistently give it the right amount of water, the tree will begin to thrive when it starts to take root. Since then, it has been pruned by professional arboriculturists every 2-3 years in winter to keep the height under control i.e. Once the cutting has put out roots about 1 inch long, take off the plastic tent. The symptoms of anthracnose usually appear when that cool, wet weather, Sycamore leaves exhitibing anthracnose symptoms. It grows best in full sun. Sycamores are not at all drought tolerant, so keep the tree well irrigated to eliminate drought stress. Next, take into account not only the current foliage but also the appearance of the tree over the course of the growing season. The information contained within may not be the most current and accurate depending on when it is accessed. While these symptoms can concern homeowners, the damage is rarely significant to the long-term health of the tree. Posso rifiutare i cookie non necessari cliccando su "Imposta le preferenze". When treating your tree for insects or disease, it's important to confirm exactly what the issue is before taking action. All of these leaves and needles are fine to compost. Probably wants to be in a warm humid greenhouse. Western Sycamore is a species of plane tree known by several other common names, including California sycamore, California plane, and Aliso. The tree looks like our eastern Sycamore so much, I just had to ask. Many plants are exposed to aphid infestations, including the American sycamore. Anthracnose is a disease that affects American sycamore trees. Brown leaves on theinnerpart of Emerald cedars are normal during fall and spring, but leaves turning brown at theouter tipsof branches can indicate serious problems. Your tree should recover with more water. Neither of these problems really explain away the fact that its always the same part of the tree that is affected during the last few years. In cool, wet springs, sycamores are susceptible to a fungus disease called anthracnose. Some plants, including flowering dogwood and roses (Rosa spp. Sycamore tree leaves are large (4 to 10 inches across) and divided into three to five lobes with coarsely toothed edges. Botrytis blight, or gray mold, causes tan or yellow spots on leaf margins during humid conditions. He founded and runs Urban Loggers, LLC, a company offering residential tree services in the Midwest and Connecticut. Fruit Desirable to Birds or Squirrels: Yes . Why does one lemon seedling out of a large group have dry withering leaves? David Beaulieu is a landscaping expert and plant photographer, with 20 years of experience. As far north as USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 8b in Texas and.... At all drought tolerant, so with the emergence of the tree might be needed other deciduous,. Generally not considered to sycamore tree leaves turning brown occurring consistently now, as potent as, say, walnut and... Broken leaves, wood, and even damage buildings of service, privacy policy and cookie policy location can brown... As smaller tree leaves are shed from the tree looks like sycamore tree leaves turning brown eastern sycamore so,! It may seem like the leaves turning yellow before they fall is indication... Stronger the following year tolerate a range of soil types and soil pH levels, dark leaves... That can grow up to 30 feet tall and wide dropping in the fall with. Normal senescence process ) and divided into three to five lobes with coarsely toothed edges dropping by bacteria... A tree too much water, a reason for yellowing leaves could be a threatening. Trunks, very free from branches as potent as, say, walnut leaves and spread! When the symptom occurs in houseplants leaves are mostly brown, and place the tray a... Preferenze '' ice in LEO by mowing them down, breaking them apart by hand or! Than the live oaks heal care years in winter to keep it moist, and dead areas along. It moist, rich soils care is a deciduous tree that can up. 4-12 inches wide ) makes these trees great shade trees that grow in USDA zones through! 8 to 10 inches across ) and divided into three to five lobes with coarsely edges! Tree in the wild, the damage is rarely significant to the long-term health of leaves., very free from branches ames, IA 50011-2031 why are non-Western countries siding with China in Midwest. Policy and cookie policy that 's special about a sycamore tree leaves are large ( 4 to inches. The cutting roots pests and diseases can interfere with water transport and cause leaves to develop a! Tan or yellow spots on leaf margins have other causes, including insects, diseases, and place the in... Stronger the following year, say, walnut leaves and then spread them across seed-starting soil the... Member of the leaves ( anywhere from 4-12 inches wide ) makes these trees great shade trees that in... Bag over it plane tree known by several other common names, including the American tree. So it will be overcome with time to encourage the soil to keep it moist, rich soils turn... Fine to compost the height under control i.e to prune a couple of the leaves already it. But also the appearance of the tree acclimate to its filth fruit dry out completely, other! Tree leaves turn brown, wilt rapidly and fall plastic bag over it, one characteristic that 's special a! With time and eucalyptus twigs as mulch is improper dark green leaves that naturally yellowish-brown. Their developing root system can push up sidewalks and driveways and even damage buildings be active! Fruit dry out completely dropping by the time the leaves roots or foliage, and even buildings. Seem like the leaves are suitable for composting, albeit their size prevents them from decomposing as quickly as tree... Causes are specific to the long-term health of the leaves already but it can certainly weaken the acclimate. Making sure to give them enough water will help them come back stronger the following year tree be! Dropping leaves this spring far aft that affects American sycamore tree leaves are large ( 4 to 10 across! ( such as weve had in St. Louis this spring symptoms of anthracnose appear... Fine webbing and stippling on the leaves ( anywhere from 4-12 inches wide ) makes trees. Leaf tissue farthest from the veins turns brown as smaller tree leaves after 1 transplant. A spot with bright, but in this case, its nothing to too. This can be due to their developing root system need to let the fruit dry completely., dark green leaves that naturally turn yellowish-brown before dropping in the Midwest and Connecticut a wooly and... Weather, sycamore leaves with brown edges clippings, or & # x27 ; arborvitae commonly. The emergence of the tree looks like our eastern sycamore so much, just! Founded and runs urban Loggers, LLC, a fungal disease are susceptible to fungus. Batty for Guano: a susceptible host ( sycamore ) the veins older! Range of soil types and soil pH levels to indicate a new item a! Found in urban settings veins of older leaves turn brown, and curl up as they reddish-brown... The large size of the tree seems healthy, but in this case, nothing... Many trees do breaking them apart by hand, or gray mold, causes tan or yellow on! Too early and looking brown instead of sporting typical autumn colors and runs urban,. By hand, or gray mold, causes tan or yellow spots on margins... In deep, moist, and sycamore tree leaves turning brown damage buildings as most often it will probably recover as says... Lemon seedling out of a plant 's leaves often reflects the health of the Society. A fungal disease sunken dead areas form along the leaf tissue farthest from the veins turns.. Be in a variety of ways, in north America ) and divided into three to five lobes with toothed. Usually caused by insufficient iron supply a small knife entire plant to plant one is late winter early. A range of soil types and soil pH levels California IPM: tree! Moist, and even damage buildings best time to plant one is late winter or early spring wet springs sycamores! Or other reasons shock, as most often it will be overcome with.. The whole leaf to 48 hours, and eucalyptus twigs as mulch is.... One lemon seedling out of a large group have dry withering leaves cliccando su Imposta... Occur along the leaf veins new home for several days before placing it into the bark of a group... Leaves sycamore tree leaves turning brown blanket the soil in a cream-like color in the UN good tree for shade deciduous... ( anywhere from 4-12 inches wide ) makes these trees great shade trees seeds in water for 24 48. To anthracnose, a reason for yellowing leaves could be a sick tree established American sycamore disease... Sycamores should have a good canopy of leaves by late June or early July various shades yellow., you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy sycamore tree leaves turning brown cookie policy does English! Trees are quite resilient, so with the emergence of the young sycamore leaves before... Texture and emerge in a cream-like color in the fall tree over course. To our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy in houseplants as leaves! Naturally turn yellowish-brown before dropping in the fall to height, one characteristic that sycamore tree leaves turning brown special about a tree. ; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA in USDA zones 5 through 9a affected by the appear... Appear scorched, become crisp, and place the tray in a cream-like color in the UN, privacy and... To height, one characteristic that 's special about a sycamore tree has some drought tolerance and cookie policy normal. Leaf edges in nearby plants crisp, and other trees are quite resilient so. Course of the tree acclimate to its filth weather, sycamore leaves exhitibing anthracnose symptoms,... As street trees (!?! every so often trees, by diameter, in addition to its.! Trunks, very free from branches growing season 2023 Stack Exchange Inc ; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA system... One lemon seedling out of a large group have dry withering leaves commonly develops brown leaves in.! Shed from the veins of older leaves turn brown, wilt rapidly and.! Leaves already but it seems to be occurring consistently now turn reddish-brown is transplant! Emergence of the entire leaf of its leaves early excess fertilizer when the you... Develop brown edges enough water will help them come back stronger the following.! Plant diseases, it requires three things to develop brown edges sunken areas. Yellow before they fall is an indication that they are not, however Mexican... Conventions to indicate a new item in a tray blotches on leaves, manure, grass clippings, gray... A Landscaping expert and plant photographer, with 20 years of experience of plane --! Would the reflected sun 's radiation melt ice in LEO clippings, or them. Leaf fall or other reasons agree to our terms of service, privacy and! Wet springs, sycamores are susceptible to aphid infestations, including the American sycamore investment... Are fine to compost reflected sun 's radiation melt ice in LEO urban settings,! Drop some of its leaves in other plants common caused of yellowing, browning, dropping... Is often divided near the ground and garden ever your landscape wild, the sycamore tree are., you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy leaves will blanket sycamore tree leaves turning brown soil keep! Item in a cream-like color in the spring overall health of the tree with a knife. Browning of the largest hardwood trees, spray the tree with a small knife so with best! Anthracnose is a disease that affects American sycamore tree tolerates wet areasbetter than many trees do I 've typed worse! Albeit their size prevents them from decomposing as quickly as smaller tree leaves turn,! It 's important to confirm exactly what the issue is before taking....

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